The Vegetarian Society - vegetarians don't eat fish

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Lee, it would be a shame to deprive yourself of the pleasure of a cat's company just because they eat fish! Cats are as they were made, they can not find out about things and make informed choices as we can, they depend on us and deserve a proper balanced diet to keep them healthy. I have no qualms about feeding our cats fish and meat but when it comes to myself I have made the decision not to eat them and have the brain power to work out a healthy diet with neither fish nor meat included, this is my choice but I do not have the power to choose an alternative diet for my cats.
I would not preach, but if they ask and show an interest in vegetarianism or veganism, I would be more than happy to give them the facts. Being a vegetarian means one eats vegetables and fish are animals not vegetables. How funny this “fish-eating vegetarianism” exists in the UK! I am still feeling guilty because our cats eat fish so I will definitely think twice about getting a cat in the future. ~ Lee
I agree Hollie that some people are ignorant of the facts of vegetarianism and veganism, which is why it's OUR job to enlighten them! In the nicest possible way and without judgement...what is it they say "Softly softly, catchee monkey!" ~ Barbara
I am a proper vegetarian, no meat, no fish. However I have a friend who calls herself a vegetarian but still eats fish. One day I was sitting eating my lunch when one of my other friends came up to me and said, "Why are you vegan!?" I was a bit surprised and told her I wasn't. She then said that my other friend (the fish eater) had been going round telling everyone I was vegan, because vegans didn't eat fish, but vegetarians did! Surely the meanings of 'vegetarian' and 'vegan' have not changed that much!? Why are people so ignorant about this? People should be told. ~ Hollie Barkshaw
I had one fish burger after I decided to stop eating “meat”and I started doing some research on the internet and I learned fish are animals and fish meat is meat. So after that one burger I have not had any meat. But to my surprise, a nasty surprise, I discovered a lot of the curry paste contains meat sauce! Nasty. Must read the ingredients thoroughly. How fish are treated is probably worse than other animals because they are not even recognised as sentient animals and they get thrown in a container where they squash one another to death or suffocate to death. In many countries, they even start filleting them while they are still alive for the ultimate freshness for Su**i. ~ Lee
I agree with Barbara, I think you shouldn't worry too much about insects, Lee, otherwise you'll just feel so bad all the time! Yes, cats have to have meat, but humans don't. We can survive on a meat free diet, and I think that is what everyone should do. My Mum says it is part of the food chain, but it's not, it's our choice... Anyway, fish. I think, personally, that vegetarians should not eat fish. Yes, fish don't lead such a horrible life as other animals, but they still feel pain, and some are pumped with chemicals to make them grow larger/have a richer colour. Some fish are actually kept in small, cramped cages, which make them stressed. This can result in many deaths. Also, fish are animals. Vegetarians do not eat animals, and I'm sticking to that. ~Hannah
To Lee, I think you can only do your best as you see it, if you start worrying about grass, ants etc you'll drive yourself mad! Cats and dogs are nautral carnivores and I know that ceratainly cats HAVE to have meat as their bodies can't make taurine otherwise, we take them on and must look after their needs and not impose our dietary choices on them. I eat neither fish nor meat but still buy catfood and even cooked chicken for our cats (mind you I feel guilty at the checkout incase anyone sees me buying meat) Simon, you can only do your bit, if you don't want to give up fish fair enough....focus on the animals you are NOT eating, there are that many less killed for food. A bit off subject but has anyone noticed that once you give up meat/fish the smell when passing butchers shops and wetfish shops is stomach-turning? ~Barbara Bates
I have recently been choosing not to eat meat but have no intention to give up fish. It’s a halfway house, I know, and my own decision. While there are many alternatives to the beef, chicken and pork I previously consumed nothing can replace my daily lunchtime tuna sandwiches and surely this is better than eating both meat and fish? What about accepting that some people like fish and focusing on choosing more ethically produced fish, ie living a good life in the natural sea and humanely killed? How can we tell this when we buy fish? On Dan’s point “there’ll be no discussion on what we’re eating” as he eats veggie and friends eat meat I am certainly getting surprised people commenting when I choose something not containing meat, almost as though I’m from another planet! ~ Simon
I don’t not eat any meat including fish and shell fish. Anything living deserves to live in my opinion, but can anyone shed any light on where the boundary should lie? We walk on the grass in the park and I am sure we trample on ants and other insects; we see a mosquito or cockroach and we feel we need to get rid of them otherwise they might spread deadly diseases and just give you a nasty bite. They can feel pain, can’t they? I buy cat food for my cats. That contributes to the death of lots of fish and chickens. Would you feel bad about it? The whole point of my vegetarianism is to cause no death to animals, but buying cat food does that. Fortunately I live in Aberdeen where I don’t need to deal with cockroaches and mosquitoes. Anyway, enjoy your vegetarian diet because I do mine. Watch out for Blue Dragon Thai curry paste. It contains fish sauce. ~ Lee from Aberdeen, Scotland
I was veggie for about 3 1/2 years and then became piscetarian 2 years ago. It was absolute horror to my family as I am a Texan and I am from a ranching family. So, I can't say the "if I can't do it myself" because I have done. The only thing I can say about my family is they raise free range animals. I made my decision as a health choice and later after moving to England it was reaffirmed by the treatment of animals. Although I do not get aggressive or offended when people say that they are veggie but they eat fish, I inform them that they are actually piscetarians ... thus the word pisces .... many people don't know the different names for vegetarianism and appreciate the info. Eating fish is helpful to my health ... so is taking fish oil as I have severe arthritis from so many broken bones. The English weather has taken a great toll on my arthritis and the alternatives lower your white blood count etc. It is only a part of my regime, but there is a great difference between being able to walk and not being able to. God gave us free will ... why should we take the choice from our fellow human beings? They have to live up to their own choices like we do in the end. All we can do is inform and be supportive. ~ Melissa
Well, pescatarean-non-sectarian-veggie according to this definition, from this page http://www.vnv.org.au/Definitions.htm you are NOT a pure vegetarian Definition of "Vegetarianism" There are many different forms of vegetarianism (which often causes confusion!) A general definition of vegetarianism is: Vegetarianism is the practice of living on products of the plant kingdom, with or without the use of eggs and dairy products, but excluding entirely the consumption of any part of the body of an animal as food (including chicken, fish and seafood). The term "vegetarian" means a person who follows such practice, or describes such a person, creature, establishment or food pertaining to vegetarianism. The term "vegetarian" comes from "vegetus", the Latin for "enlivened", and has no connection, apart from a linguistic one, with vegetables. This is a common misconception. but I say full marks to anyone who tries in anyway to save animal or fish lives just don't call yourselves vegetarians if you eat fish or chicken! If you look on the above link there are plenty of other titles for various diet regimes. I don't feel in the least aggressive towards anyone on this forum, and Janet thanks for the compliment but I am 53 years old and gave up meat when I was 46 and fish a while after. ~ Barbara Bates
I thought Belinda Johnstone’s letter was very good. The average age of people replying seems to be very young. I gave up eating meat at the age of 50 and rather than call myself a vegetarian in a restaurant I just say I do not eat meat. In France I eat mussels and wonder what the writer whose criterion is not to eat anything with a face or a mother thinks of that! Eskimos wouldn’t survive very long on a veg diet!! As I have said before one doesn’t have to eat fish in order to be sociable but it certainly helps one to be sociable if one does eat fish. I think it is a shame that because a very small proportion of the public have an allergy to nuts, the rest of us are being denied nut roasts etc. I would like to know if nut allergies are caused by peanuts and cachews (which are not real nuts ) what about walnuts, pecans, macadamias, almonds, pine nuts – they are all so different, have they been analysed? ~Janet.
Going vegetarian is a lifestyle choice - eating meat is a lifestyle choice - eating only fish in combination with a vegetarian diet. All are lifestyle choices. I personally do not eat anything I know has gellatin in. But I do eat fish. I saw on the news a spokesperson from this society quite snappily declare to a newsreader that people who eat fish aren't vegetarian. I was quite offended, I have had to deal my entire life with being as vegetarian as the next one of you (I was raised in such a way). I understand the issue to a certain extent but I think the essentially aggressive nature of this anti fish campaign and way of isolating people is rather shameful. Surely as its all a lifestyle choice people should be welcome. Ever thought about creating a division of pescetarian (as my friends often call me)? ~ Pescatarian-non-sectarian-veggie
No you don’t have to eat fish to be sociable but you do have to be sociable in order to eat fish! ~Janet
Janet, I agree with Dan on this, I can't see where there is any need to kill an animal or fish to be sociable, I have often said that I can't understand how when people have something to celebrate they will happily sit down and eat an animal that has lost it's life, that animal has nothing to celebrate that's for sure. In the same way I can't see why eating flesh makes one sociable...and not eating flesh makes us holier-than-thou, surely it's the person and not the plate that we socialise with. I wouldn't say a word to anyone eating meat or fish in my presence in a cafe or restaurant, their conscience is their own business. But no one would ever be served flesh in my home. ~ Barbara Bates
Sorry Janet, but you don't need to "eat a beautifully cooked fish" to be sociable, and this doesn't mean you're being "holier than thou". I'll quite happily sit there whilst my friends eat fish/meat and there'll be no discussion on what we're eating - we're just enjoying a social event - fish or no fish! ~ Dan
What living creature doesn’t suffer at the point of death? Some people would not wear silk because the silk worm cocoons are gassed in the production of the thread. It is easy to find suffering however minimal and make it a reason to argue. At that level the debate does more to put people off being compassionate. The fight to stop dragnets and factory farmed fish is far more deserving of our energies. Fish are cold blooded and surely their suffering is minimal compared to years of cruelty in the production of animals. Waste is despicable and a recent survey tells us that a third of all food is wasted! Vegetarians drinking milk are the cause of far more suffering to cows whose calves are taken from them within days of birth and who are pregnant again too soon. I would say celebrate life by enjoying a beautifully cooked fish every now and then so that one can eat out in a restaurant and be sociable (all important) instead of being holier than thou. ~ Janet
Cara, I don't think you should be too hard upon yourself, you have obviously tried to do without taking fish oil products to the detriment of your health and although you're feeling bad about taking it again on moral grounds my idea is that if you don't look after your own health, you won't be in a position to care for or campaign for animal welfare or to promote a vegetarian diet. Depression is a terrible thing and it would be wrong to deliberately make yourself ill when you know what it is that keeps you well. Those fish are dead anyway, probably a long time ago now, maybe they won't have died quite in vain if they can make, and keep, you well to work for veggie-ism! Good Luck, I hope you stay well. ~ Barbara Bates
I don't eat fish, but I do swallow high doses of fish oils daily. I was a strict vegetarian for 8 months before I started taking fish oils again, and although I keep the rest of my diet as a strict vegetarian would, I no longer class myself as vegetarian. My reasons behind this; All my life I've suffered with incredibly low Serotonin levels, even SSRI's could not help. I suffered from such bad depression, I got confused easily, my energy was virtually non-existent, and I suffered from frequent panic attacks and manic episodes. When I was 16 a doctor put me on very high doses of fish oils, and 8 months later my life had turned around. When I became vegetarian I switched the fish oils for Flaxseed and Algae supplements as well as eating omega seed mixes and other such things in my diet. 3 months later I started getting severe panic attacks again. It didn't click at first, because my diet was so perfect I didn't link it to being vegetarian. Over the next 5 months the panic attacks became more severe, my energy drained, and I started suffering from severe depression again, until I felt so horrible and confused I could no longer take it. After researching Algae and Flaxseed and discovering that most of the research on it's effectiveness at providing the essential fatty acids was conflicting I realised it must be the cause, so I started taking the high levels of fish oils again. It's only been a few weeks but my mood has already dramatically picked up, along with my energy levels and concentration. I was upset about taking the fish oils, and I still am, but I daren't risk the alternatives.. I'm so torn between my health and my morals. I think more money needs to be invested in getting some conclusive research about the effectiveness of fish-free Omega 3 alternatives. - Cara
This is my second contribution to the great fish debate: I agree with all that has been said on the subject of fish eating so called vegetarians since my last post, the other evening a neighbour who knows we are a vegetarian household knocked on our door and offered us a whole fish that had been given to him and which he didn't want. It had been in someone's freezer but was now defrosted and he was desperate for someone to take it. I reminded him we are veggies and he replied that he knew that but that some vegetarians eat fish.....I told him that in that case they weren't vegetarians. My point is that that fish had lost it's life for absolutely nothing, no one wanted to eat it and it was just an embarrasment to him trying to get rid of it. I didn't even want it for our cats, they eat meat and fish of course but not boney fresh fish like that. If people feel they have to go fishing and kill their catch why do they kill and keep more than they can eat? ~ Barbara Bates
I've never eaten fish in my entire life (28 years) and have been vegetarian for about 4 years, so cutting out fish wasn't really a problem as I'd never eaten it! I think its too easy to get caught up in labels. It's important that we all do our bit, but there's so many other aspects of life where we can help the environment. What about a fish-eater who only ever buys locally produced vegetables compared to a "vegetarian" who buys vegetables that have been shipped half way across the world? Who's standing on "the moral high-ground" then? I know this is a different issue, but people do as much as they choose to reduce suffering/environmental impact. I'll never frown upon a "vegetarian" who eats fish, nor upon a "vegetarian" who is wearing a leather belt. Not that I'd frown upon a meat eater. It's choice. I have to respect anyone "doing their bit". As to what they're called, I really don't care..... ~ Dan
To reply to Dave Segelov, I recommend that you try Cheezly, from your supermarket - tastes as good as the real thing and is not using milk. I became veg overnight after killing a spider: I dropped a thick book on it as it strolled about my bedroom. What was my Epiphany moment was when I lifted the book and saw that the spider had had time to draw in its legs and flinch before the book hit it. Since then I have eaten nothing that has 'had a face', not have I killed another creature. Does this make me a veggie turning to Buddhism? I even drink soya milk because I believe that cows moo because they have lost their calves, in order that we can steal their milk!
I am currently what the vegsoc would term vegetarian and have been so for a year now. For a year before that I was a piscatarean ( I gave up meat for lent then found I didn't miss it and had a hell of a lot less guilt about what i ate, then gave up fish lent 2006 and so even less guilt). However I still applaud people who are still basically carnivorous but look to reduce their animal-food intake. I do not think this is undermining for vegetarianism at all, in fact if the so-called 'normal' mainstream of society are moving that way then surely this will bring better cultural understanding of the lifestyle. It seems odd that generally people go veggie or vegan out of benevolent reasons, yet there are always some who enjoy being self-righteous and damning. It's a cliche but live and let live I say. I like many others on this site have sufferred unprovoked personal attacks just because of what i pop in my mouth, but two wrongs certainly don't make a right. For example I was recently given a look of stunned disgust by someone I know because I'd said I wouldn't like to feed my future children meat (although I'm happy enough for them to get it and eat it themselves when theyre old enough to say 'i want that one, mummy' in a restaurant or someone's house). I choose not to eat meat or fish out of compassion for the animals and because I'd no longer feel happy about killing one myself-others take a different view. Such is life. ~ Victoria Symonds
This debate is absolutely fantastic! This issue has been irritating me for years now! I get completely fed up with the constant questioning every time someone finds out I'm a veggie! It's the most popular question for people who seem fascinated with the idea of not eating meat! (Personally I'm fascinated with the idea of eating rotting flesh... why would you?!) But why would I eat fish if I don't eat meat??! Fish are still flesh at the end of the day. I cannot understand people's ignorance or maybe lack of intellect on the issue. In my view, eat and don't eat, whatever you like but don't use words you don't know the meaning of please, for the sake of the rest of us actual vegetarians! ~ Karen - London
I am not a true Vegetarian, however I am an ovo/lacto pescetarian as I eat eggs, some dairy, and fish, but no other animals of any kind. But, a person who eats anything but vegetation is not a Vegetarian. ~ Ron Aragon, Merced, CA
I'm a vegetarian. When asked, my line is that I don't want to eat anything that once enjoyed living. I get very frustrated by fish eating vegetarians because if people meet 99 real vegetarians, and 1 fish eating vegetarian, then they'll ask the real vegetarians: "Why don't you eat fish? I know a vegetarian who eats fish, vegetarians eat fish, why are you so difficult?" ~ Francis Cagney
I have never eaten fish in my life and I am 10 years old I want all fishes to be happy including all the other meat there is to eat!! let every little creatcher live its life! ~ from pippa
At last! My great-grandfather was a vegetarian (from the 1850s onwards) and although the rest of the family are not, we all know that vegetarians do not eat, as he put it, 'fish, meat or fowl' or anything to do with them. When I have guests and they state they are 'vegetarian' and I do a special meal for them - and I then find them saying 'oh but I eat fish' or 'oh but I eat chicken' - I realise that 'vegetarian' seems to have lost some of its original meaning and has become a fashion-conscious way of saying 'not sure about eating red meat'! In particular, I find people who can eat fish but not meat even more peculiar, since effectively fish 'drown' slowly in air, rather than are quickly stunned and then despatched as land animals now have to be. Those of us who are not vegetarians should be very aware of the real cost to the animal of methods of farming, methods of killing and the real cost to the environment of eating excess meat. - Evelyn Wasdell
Anyway - fish. I admit to being one of these 'vegetarians' that eats fish. The comments and annoyance of people on this page are fine. But part of the reason fish eaters do use the term, is - what do you call yourself when your friends or restaurateur ask?.....and I still hold that we can order animals by levels of consciousness and awareness, and that fish rank below mammals. Extracts from a long reply by Gordon Panther - you can read the full contribution and the replies here
I stopped eating meat and poultry five and a half years before I stopped eating fish, I'd felt guilty for a long time for eating animals because I do love all animals and am totally against animal experiments and factory farming but it was "easier" to follow the herd and continue to eat meat. What finally made me make the decision never to eat meat again was that one of our beloved cats who had especially loved home roasted chicken died and because he could never again eat it I thought that neither should I, and I haven't eaten any meat since then. But I still ate fish from time to time, mostly from the fish and chip shop and I justified it by saying that fish don't really do much but swim about, and as before our cats enjoyed it too and then my own special little cat was poorly and at the end she just couldn't eat even her favourite fish, after she died I said that as she couldn't eat her fish then neither should I eat it so then FINALLY I was vegetarian. I'd also like to say that we have three huge goldfish in a tank, they are almost 2 years old now and are so friendly and intelligent. I couldn't imagine eating them or any of their kind and wonder now how I ever did. My sister is of the same persuasion as me and between us we've converted a new but already very dear friend to total vegetarianism in less than a year. - Barbara Bates
I was so tired of being sertved fish when I asked for vegetarian that in situations where I wouldn't be able to get up go elsewhere (flights, formal dinners, etc) I started asking for vegan, and I've /still/ been presented with fish, on flights and in hotels. - Tim Rowe
Sure, vegetarians should not have fish in their diet - which vegetable is a fish? But on the same note, which vegetable is an egg? - Madhupriya
I'm a twelve year old vegetarian - NOT piscatarian - from Doncaster, and it's amazing how naive so many people are about vegetarianism. I get offered fish in my school canteen at least twice a week - and at least once a week there is not hot vegetarian option. I think it's appalling. 'Piscatarian' should be entered into the dictionary, and the term applied to anyone who doesn't eat meat but eats fish. Also, there should be a word for people that eat chicken but not meat - a 'chickatarian'? please reply, sincerely, -SJ
Having been vegetarian for over 2 decades now I have seen many changes , not only in food available in supermarkets but when eating out. Gone are the days when eating out as a veggie meant lasagne or salad or quiche…it’s brilliant!! However, I still have a major problem when eating out. Vegetarians do NOT eat fish. So, by all means call yourselves pescatarians if that makes you feel better, but the truth is that you simply do not eat meat or poultry. You are not vegetarian of any description. Even now in the enlightened 21st century when out for a meal, I will ask for the vegetarian options and be told of a fish dish. This is met with a blank look from the staff when I say “No, I am vegetarian we don’t eat fish”. This is as a direct result of those “pescatarian” folk parading as vegetarian. So, please, all you non meat and poultry eaters get it right!! As for the whole consciousness argument….if you have ever scuba dived and played with one of these non-feeling beings or watched them going about there daily existence. You may see a number of similarities between fish and the dogs, cats, cows, pigs and even humans of the world. Furthermore, could we please have a better argument than not eating something with a shadow. After all, how many intensively reared animals do you think ever see enough sunlight to cast a shadow…. - Rachael Pitty, West Midlands
This is my contribution to the great fish debate: I am only 14 years of age but I had become a vegetarian but the age of 10. It took me 2 years to cut out the fish from my diet as I got bullied into eating it by my family and friends who thought that was the only way i could get the essential oils. I worked hard to find omega 3 and other pills to top up my vitamin and oil balance in my body and now I wouldn't dream of eating fish or any kind of meat again. ~ Emily Louise Putting aside all judgements and ethical considerations, one thing is surely obvious: if you eat fish you are NOT a vegetarian. Vegetarians don't eat animals; fish are animals. By definition, vegetarians DO NOT eat fish. -Jacqui White, Whitstable, Kent. I thought since my previous article on this debate had been moved to the "Archive" section, I'd better re-fresh my voice! I just wanted to say a particular "Well Done" to Amy Deakin who managed to turn veggie at the age of just 11, and good on you for making it your New Year's resolution now you're 14 to become a true veggie by giving up fish etc, you, and those that know you should be proud. Also, well done to all those others out there making the effort - although I agree with comments others have made about it not being overly difficult to read labels more closely and ask more questions when out buying food in a restaurant etc, I empathise that its more difficult for some people than others. Just stick with it, and you'll be helping yourself, the animals, and the world we live in: I thankyou for that... ~Dale Hoyland ~Chair of "York University's Veggie Society"
How about "mostly vegetarian" or as you already said, "90% Veggie" , or "aspiring vegetarian", or flexitarian, or semi-vegetarian. And on a slightly different topic I think if you were trying to quit fish and slipped you could still call yourself a vegetarian (but you gotta goto confession -- just kidding!! There is no such thing as the vegetarian police, and if someone acts the part, I wouldn't want to hang out with them).
This is my contribution to the great fish debate: Me and my daughter are vegetarians and wouldn't dream of eating fish, I've always classed them as the same as animals ~Kay P
Its great to be a part of the we don`t eat fish campaign and i have been pleased by the number of comments from young vegetarians. I am a mature person (male) and notice some people have experienced anti feelings from others when trying to follow a veggie lifestyle, but hang on in. when i was young, as we mature persons say, not even the doctor i was taken to for my unusual behaviour mentioned the word vegetarian and certainly after being forced physically to consume meat did any teacher ever use the word vegetarian, as if it were a swear word. anyway i am limited in eating out because i will not become a vegetarian that eats cheese made with rennet and so precludes the usual veggie choice on the menu, cheese omelette, lasagne and anyway "we didn`t know how cheese was made" and other "veggies eat it"! can we have a card campaign about cheese please!! and is it right to have menus saying "suitable for vegetarians" when it is not and is this a matter for the description of products being misleading? any comments or am i going just a "vegetarian expectation too far" ~ dave segelov
I’m a vegetarian who eats fish and say I must agree with Helena Jerrome’s post, I think every little bit helps and think the reason that many don’t bother trying to be kinder to animals through what they eat and the products they buy is because I think some vegetarians convey the message that its an all or nothing issue. For example someone may not want to be a vegetarian but can help by not supporting animal testing and making sure the meat they buy is free range. The reason I eat fish is because I had read that while fish may ‘register pain’ their cerebral cortex is so tiny compared to mammals that they don’t experience pain in the same way and that they do not experience fear or other emotions. The main point I want to make is that being a vegetarian should be about trying to help animals, not all this fussing over a title so that some people can feel morally superior to others. ~ Belinda Johnston
As a high-school student, I decided in 8th grand that I wanted to be a 'vegetarian' I had no idea how hard that it would be. My best friend helped me to get in to it. we decided that since we were still pretty young, we should have some sort of meat in our body for reasons such as we were still growing and that our parents wouldnt let us cut meat completely out of our diets. also, we loved the tast of meat, but love the animals and environment more. we decided that we would become 'swimintarians'. and still are to this day. I do not however belive that 'fish eating vegetarians' should consider themselves vegetarians. thats just my input on the topic. ~Brooke Frey
I'm 14 and have been a non-meat eater since I was 11. I always hated meat apart from chicken up until then, and then I went off that so I stopped (anyway I'd discovered Quorn!) But I still ate fish- partly because I liked it and partly because I was worried about protein. I called myself veggie most of the time because I wasn't sure what else to call myself. Then I read this article and it got me thinking. I could never kill a fish, and I don't like looking at dead whole ones so I decided to give up for New Year, which I have. So I can call myself a proper vegetarian without worrying! ~Amy Deakin
Hi! I am 20 and, along with my three younger brothers, I’ve never eaten meat, but always eaten fish. This was originally purely because that was my mum’s diet, and later because the thought of eating meat appalled me. I only eat tuna, salmon, and little prawns; and only when they don’t look like they have ever been alive. It’s never really occurred to me how ridiculous this is! My mum’s recently given up fish, and I’ve been thinking of doing the same as I don’t think it would make much of a difference to my diet, other than making me a little more irritating as a visitor. And I have always called myself ‘vegetarian’, again because my mum did, and had never really seen a problem with that. I probably won't, after reading this page – I never realised it was such an issue for people. I have honestly never seen not eating meat as a struggle – I just don’t, and don’t mind reading labels or asking annoying questions in restaurants. Anyway, reading this has changed my opinions somewhat, so I’ll think a bit more carefully in the future! Not sure if I’ll change my eating habits or not but I’ll certainly think about it. - Becky Jones
I became a vegetarian on environmental grounds rather out of compassion for my fellow creatures. I initially thought that going to the ocean would ease the burden on the land and I could get my "needed" protein from fish. A few minutes research revealed that the world fish stock are being depleted due to over-fishing. So there you have it even if you think fish don't feel pain, there is still a compeling reason not to eat them. I honestly don't think humanity is going to see out the 21st century (I'm amazed we made it through the 20th) but maybe we might add a few few years if we stop abusing our planet. -Stephen Hasslauer
I plan on giving up fish in the New Year. I have not eaten meat for many years now. I think I was about 13 when I first gave it up and am 24 now, although I have to say I have had slip-ups – mainly in my student years when alcohol and pizza were involved … these things happen! I would like to think that I will eventually think of fish in the same way as I now think of meat: I wouldn’t consider eating it. The problems I have are not only that fish and seafood are currently among my favourite foods but also that I can’t seem to drum it into myself that the farming and eating fish is equally as cruel as eating mammals. I could catch a fish and eat it I’m sure. Perhaps I need to read more about fish farms in order to spur me on to becoming a “proper” vegetarian. For the record, I try not to call myself a vegetarian, I just tell people I don’t eat meat – rather that than have people pick me up on the fact I do eat fish and ask me the same old boring questions. Meat eaters seem fascinated by this. I see it as a personal choice and so do not preach to others about eating meat. Doesn’t stop meat-eaters trying to have the same old debates with me about not eating meat or about why I don’t eat fish though! Here’s to my New Year’s Resolution! - Leah Kayles
I have been a veggie since 1975 (when my mother thought this was very nearly a crime!! especially as it was a week before Christmas Dinner we were invited to!!). However, I did eat fish until February 1976 and found that it was quite easy once my mind was made up to give up all living creatures in my diet. The secret was "If I could not kill it myself, then I should not eat it!" . After that it was so simple - why should someone else do my "dirty work" for me to eat the remains! It works to explain to others the reason for not eating meat quite well. However, I DO have a problem with people thinking veggies are all slim! this is a MYTH!! I know we don't eat meat, but it still means we CAN eat the wrong amounts of veggie stuff. Cream cakes, pizzas, cakes, biscuits etc., can all be veggie (but in the quantities eaten this does NOT make you slim!!). Oh, for a veggie cream cake that did NOT put on the pounds.!!! Ah, well perhaps technology will advance..... I have also taken the view that wearing the "remains" also is not a good idea for me i.e., leather - but I fully understand some veggies may consider this O.K. as it is a by-product of the meat industry only. However, the adage still works for me "If I cannot do it myself, then I will do without". Whilst writing, I wish I could be vegan, but I CAN milk goats/cows, and I do have to live in my real world, so maybe I'm not such a goodie two shoes after all...... - Terry Smith
What are you going to eat when it is proven that plants feel emotion and pain? Recent research suggests that Egg Plants are subject to certain “animal” attributes. To avoid this dilemma I have long been a 33% vegetarian (meat and 2 veg). - Sibbe
I have not eaten fish since 1978 when I went vege. Every animal is not here for humankind to use and abuse.We all have a responsibility to help save our planet,so we should all give up eating fish which would help to solve the problem of our overfished seas.There are so many ignorant people who think that fish are a lower form of life.Rubbish!It is us humans who are. - Brenda Jones, Sheerness,Kent
I am a vegetarian, as are my husband and all three of our children, (2, 11 & 12 years old). I am often told by people that I should give them a choice in what they eat, especially when my older boys were younger. I just reply, “I am, I’m not forcing them to eat meat”. People are always starting debates with me about being vegetarian, trying to tell me that it’s wrong! Huh! Does everyone have this problem? All of us are very healthy. My family and I eat or harm nothing that can move under it’s own self esteem. This includes anything from Snails to Whales. I love the Vegetarian Society Magazine, it gives me loads of facts and figures that I can use in defence for all vegetarians. I do however find it extremely hard to read some of the articles, as I, as well as many others, get very upset about them. I guess it’s a case of having to, if we are to have any sort of teaching tool to educate others. People can be so naïve! As for fish, how can people say they don’t feel pain? Of course they can. I keep fish in an oversized tank. I love to just watch them, I know they each have their own personalities. Which ever scientist spent money discovering that fish only have a three second memory, was clearly highly overpaid! The whole thing is just ridiculous. The human race is supposed to be an intelligent species. There are so many alternatives out there, why do people still insist on eating food that has to be murdered first? I firmly believe that we, as humans are not and were never meant to be meat eaters. Just by the design of our teeth, you can tell that we are all actually meant to be herbivores. Also, how many people do you know that don’t bother to cook their meat before eating it? They can’t. It all seems so obvious. Oh, and a small tip for restaurant owners, can you please also label which desserts are suitable for vegetarians. I’m getting quite sick of the laughs I get from staff who assume that there can’t possibly be any meat products in the food if it’s a pudding! Naivety wins again! - Maxine Knight, Oxfordshire.
I've been a vegetarian for just over a year now, and I wouldn't dream of eating fish! They were still alive! There is no need for fish to be in danger, and in my opinion, governments aren't doing enough! When, for example, tigers, became endangered, severe bans were put in place to keep them safe, why can't the same be done to fish??? Let Mr. Fishy live on!! - Kellie, Maynooth.Ireland!
I agree that food which includes fish should not be described as suitable for vegetarians. But you should be cautious about moralising on the fish issue. Fish production does not necessarily involve more cruelty or environmental damage than does milk production. -Richard Latham I'm a vegetarian and therefore don't eat fish. I'm fed up with all these emails and articles about fish, its making me feel SICK. I'm quite a new member of the Veg Society and didn't expect this, please stop. I'm happy to receive interesting articles, tips and recipes for vegetarians but no more fishy stuff please. - Jane Anthony. My gripe is with folk who call themselves vegetarians and yet eat fish using the feeble excuse its necessary to avoid meat when eating out. Its not necessary, its lazy! I didn’t really have much trouble when I WAS vegetarian. Now that I eat fish too I have found there are always at least 4 options on a menu to choose from. Having suffered the revulsion of being served fish through ignorance as the “alternative” to my vegetarian meal request on several occasions I wouldn’t dream of contributing to this distortion by calling it anything other than it is. I am NOT a vegetarian who eats fish, I am a non-meat eater!! -Sue Bethell Thank you so much for your piece on Omega 3 in your great new campaign. I have been vegetarian for the past year and have been under a lot of pressure from friends and family to start eating fish because they believed without it I wouldnt be getting important nutrients in my diet. Not only did your blunt front page remind me that I could never possibly eat any kind of animal, it also gave me (and no doubt a lot of other people) the chance to prove to those concerned that you can be healthy without Mr Fish :) - Cat Hurley, Norfolk I too am tired of having to explain to people what a vegetarian is! There are always friends or family of people they refer to and say "Yes but so and so is a vegetarian and they eat fish....." People should not call themselves veggie unless they actually are or else it confuses everyone! Just say you don't eat meat if anyone asks! I am also sick of seeing all these products that now are adding omega 3, such as milk. It's more labels to read and I even had to refuse milk in my tea at my friends house the other day. People don't seem to associate omega 3 with fish (conveniently enough!!!) Keep up the good work veg soc on this great debate! - Mandy, Fareham, HANTS I've been a vegetarian for 14 years and think this is a great campaign. I'm sick of people asking 'But do you eat fish?' when I tell them I'm veggie! My favourite response is 'no food with a face...'! - From Lucy in West Sussex. I have not eaten meat for about six years. I only used to eat tuna and mackerel. A very narrow minded differentiation- I think I was afraid of not getting enough protein. Since reading the recent scientific research concerning the pain and intelligence fish possess, I have managed to give up fish altogether now. I am proud of my decision and am not finding it as difficult as I thought, but it has been a slow path. The connection does take a long time I think? I liked your leaflet and it has helped me to reinforce my decision not to eat fish. I am sorry I ever did. More people must be convinced to give it up. -Peter Rudden More and more restaurants, cafes etc. seem to be placing a 'v' symbol on their menu next to dishes that contain fish. You point out to them that they are wrong, and they often try to engage you in a 'semantic' debate about the meaning of the word 'vegetarian'. Actually, most of them are confused by the increasing number of self-styled 'vegetarians' who are happy to eat fish. It's annoying, but does it matter as long those of us who really are vegetarian know what we can and cannot eat. Well, it does matter - a lot. First of all it reproduces the nonsense of fish-eaters calling themselves vegetarian, and continues the gradual slippage in the meaning of the word. Secondly, and in the long-term, it can allow restaurant owners to offer a number of 'vegetarian' options, none of which is really vegetarian. At present, most menus include real vegetarian options as well as 'fishy' ones, but for how much longer? When I became a vegetarian in about 1976, it was hard to find a restaurant with any vegetarian options on the menu. Now most do. This is a fantastic achievement on the part of the vegetarian movement in the UK, and we mustn't let the situation slip back to how things were in the bad old days. All the best, and keep up the good work! - Simon Excellent work once again on this particular debate! The problem of over-fishing goes far beyond the surface impact of killing the fish for food. Firstly "by-catch" accounts for some 20 million metric tons of fish caught per year (roughly equivalent to four times the US fishing catch brought to shore), and whilst much of this is thrown back into the ocean, its often too late, and the animals are already dead or die soon after. Shrimping is an especially bad example of where this happens because for every 1 lb of shrimp caught, 5 lbs of by-catch is also caught. The second huge problem is the increase of technologies used to catch fish, namely: Engine power, larger ships, refrigeration, nets & trawls and sonar to echo-locate schools of fish. The trawls in particular now can go far deeper, and drag booms (used to keep the nets open) along the sea-floor that can move rocks up to 30 tons in weight: clearly any fragile coral communities don't stand a chance. They remove ALL ecosystems, leaving behind sandy/muddy desolate expanses, void of life. This has to stop right now, there's something everyone can do to help, but by far the biggest this is to go veggie... ...completely veggie which means no eating of any animals, including fish! - Dale R. A. Hoyland Chair of York University Veggie Soc. How can fish farming ever be sustainable when they have to catch fish from the wild to feed the fish in the farms? - Pamela Cauldwell Anyone who eats fish must realize they are destroying the environment. Cod is an endangered species and people still buy Cod Liver Oil tablets! - J.Canon I’m really glad The Vegetarian Society is raising awareness about the fact that vegetarians don’t eat fish! And thanks for mentioning vegetarian sources of Omega-3. I am so sick of hearing about omega-3. It’s a fad that people are panicking about, and it’s causing our fish stocks to be depleted at the same time! Keep up the good work. - Susan from Chester I get so fed up with people calling themselves vegetarians when they eat fish! When I became a vegetarian 30 years ago, there was no question of vegetarians eating fish. Now most people (including restaurant owners unfortunately) seem to think that we all eat fish. I don’t know when this idea started but when your conscience doesn’t let you eat animals, why draw the line at fish?! - Jane, Isle of Wight The 7-second memory thing is a myth. Fish are such intelligent animals. Check out this link: They can even drive robots!’ -Derek Grant Back to the main Think Tank page

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