I'm not offended by you fish eaters calling yourselves vegetarian. I just don't know why you do it when it's not true. It makes as much sense as if I were to believe in God but call myself an atheist.
~ Jacqui White.

Every day I think about animals suffering as well and that is why I chose to become vegetarian, I used to like the flavour of meat but chose to stop eating it a lot of years ago, I haven't felt it was a sacrifice at all, I have found it liberating, no more wondering what joint to buy and how to cook it, I just head for the Quorn. My conscience is clear, I love animals so I do not want to eat them. But I also think about fish suffering. I have a much loved, very large goldfish and I could no more imagine eating him than eating a firelighter! He enjoys his life, he comes to the side of the tank to me, he enjoys his food, if cornered by a net he shows anxiety, when he lost his tank mate he missed her and became very withdrawn for a time, so obviously fish do experience feelings, so I say if you don't believe in killing animals to eat then nor should you believe in killing fish.

My ethical choices involve making daily sacrifices. I come from a meat eating culture and miss the taste of it often.

It irritates me that vegetarians have to be so pious in protecting what they see as their brand and club-membership with sometimes such bad grace. Wouldn’t it be better to direct that anger where it would really do some good – at those people who have no ethics – for whom intelligent, self-aware, emotional beings are no different to a tin of beans or a loaf of bread.

But ultimately I think the vegetarian lobby’s all-or-nothing stance is counter productive. It shows that some people are more interested in trumpeting their own self-sacrifice than encouraging a gradual shift to more ethical eating. Can’t we all be just a bit utilitarian? I’d rather a hundred people gave up meat for one week each year, than one person gave up permanently. I’m happy for people to wear any badge they like if they’ll eat fewer birds and mammals – and yes I’d be very happy for them to substitute fish for cows any day! SO THERE!
~ Alan Sullivan

Also, regarding your point about living / not living in an animal's element and consequently being able to have / not have a relationship with the animal: I don't see the relevance of this argument. I don't believe we should view an animal in a particular way depending on its relationship with humans. Animals simply exist in their own right, whatever their milieu, and are all worthy of equal respect. Just because I do not breathe through gills doesn't mean that I should not recognise a fish as an animal equal in validity to a chicken or a cow.

You talk of our opportunistic nature when it comes to food. Of course this is as true of humans as it is of any animal - we eat what we need to survive. But there is a huge difference between the hunting and foraging necessary in past times and in some societies today and the Western world's intensive farming methods and supermarkets bulging with choice.

Finally, I heartily agree with your last point - choosing kinder, more sustainable diets can only be a good thing.

The only truly clear line of demarcation seems to be vegan and non-vegan. Its simple… Comes from an animal? Won’t eat it? Ok you're Vegan. If you eat something that comes from an animal, you're not vegan but then what are you? It's not true that Vegetarians only eat vegetables, since they often eat eggs or drink milk or eat cheese, just like its not true that meat-eaters only eat meat.

The problem as it needs to be understood is that it’s very rare for a social movement that doesn’t have an organizational structure to give itself a name. Names for things are given by society to a group. The term ‘Liberal’ means something VERY different now than it did 100 years ago (Libertarians were Liberals back then, Liberal means something else, and if you go to Libertarian websites you will see people arguing it just like this).

Piscetarian is a nice term, since it absolutely describes. Vegetarian if taken literally would seem to imply Veganism and not what people actually eat.

So I say, eat what you want. Tell people what you will or won't eat and ignore what the label is. If you became a <whatever> for ethical reasons, it’s more important to convey that (and perhaps why you don’t extend that same non-killing attitude to whatever other animal or plant you will eat). If you did it for health reasons, same thing. Telling someone that you’re a Vegetarian doesn’t accomplish any of this.

Again, I feel I must make the point that vegetarians are not necessarily having a go at fish-eaters for eating fish, but because we get frustrated when fish-eaters call themselves vegetarian, because:

a) they're not! and
b) it causes so much misunderstanding in the outside world.

You really can't blame vegetarians for not wanting non-vegetarians describing themselves as vegetarian!

I don't think that most vegetarians/vegans are as judgemental as you think, and most would be pleased that someone was cutting down gradually on the meat/fish/dairy, etc they chose to eat. I'm sure that most of us would feel that any steps taken towards a kinder diet are to be applauded.
~ Jacqui White.

Of course, most outdoor cats will eat some meat anyway by catching prey themselves, but that isn't anything to do with their carer - although considering the massively detrimental effect introduced species such as cats have on native (often endangered) wildlife, there are other reasons to hope they don't hunt/discourage them from doing so - I see British cats like most people see grey squirrels (although I would choose neutering over shooting as a solution!).

As far as choosing their diet goes, I don't see that choosing it to be vegan is any more forcing anything on them than choosing which specific brand of meat-based food other dogs eat, or what bed I provide them with, or where I take them for walks. Companion animals necessarily have our choices forced upon them all the time, but I don't think forcing veganism on them is any worse than the other things I choose for them. If they had the choice, they may well choose not to go to the vet either, but most owners wouldn't respect that choice! Just as many dog owners wouldn't let them eat food from public floor areas, in case of injury or disease, even though they might try to take it.

It's also not really applicable to mention natural diets, when talking about an unnatural subspecies, i.e. as they were created and spread by mankind, so is their diet/lifestyle. Plus, it's worth remembering that vegan dogs & cats are less at risk of e.g. internal parasites, as most of them are transmitted through meat, so there are some definitive health positives too.

I understand your willingness to eat those eggs, but if I had access to such eggs I think that either I would not allow them to be used at all (to avoid encouraging people to depend upon eggs, as they may use alternative, less ethical sources if those were no longer available), or I would give them away free to people who would otherwise be buying eggs, so limiting their damage. If you wouldn't otherwise choose to buy eggs if you couldn't get those, then selling/giving them to you would not lessen (and may increase) any harm, so I would keep them for someone else instead. I saw a sanctuary website which claims their eggs are vegan, which annoyed me - however justified they think they are in using them, they simply aren't vegan, just like fish isn't vegetarian!

I can't say that I've ever needed any resolution to become or stay vegan though! Once you understand the reasons for doing it, it's easy, presumably like you find being vegetarian easy because you are well aware of the consequences of eating meat, so you just wouldn't be tempted. I didn't know any other vegans for the first two years (the first one I met was my now-husband, who converted from vegetarianism to veganism the day we met), but because I had access to the internet, I was never short of information and inspiration - and having been vegetarian all my life I was already used to reading labels and asking awkward questions in restaurants!

I don't think by any means you could describe me as a militant veg (though I am proud to be a vegetarian and my choice IS because I do not agree with the taking of animal life for human gain) but I do get mad, as do a lot of the "masses", when people call themselves vegetarian and still eat fish (or chicken). In fact there was an article in a Sunday newspaper last weekend ridiculing vegetarians as fussy eaters and pointing out that some people call themselves vegetarians yet still eat eat chicken and fish. I wrote off very smartly to that particular columnist and am hoping my letter will be featured this week, this is why I don't like people calling themselves veggie when they are not, because it brings ridicule on us all and most of us are serious in our choice not to eat animal flesh or derivatives.

If you look back through the archives you will see that I have stated more than once that I do not believe that animals should be forced to be vegetarian or vegan, I have had cats for 34 years and never have and never would deny them the meat they need but I believe in buying proper high quality manufactured cats food which has all they need to keep them healthy rather than making up their food myself. They have treats like cooked turkey and fish and they catch their own mice and birds too, that is what cats do and how they are made by nature. Humans have choice, animals follow their instincts.

I DO feel guily eating eggs but as I'm vegetarian and not vegan I do so, I buy them from a neighbour who has rescued battery hens who now live free range and happily. Not all eggs are fertilised and the modest sales of these eggs have provided a safe haven for those poor hens.
~ Barbara

I have been vegetarian (i.e. I never ate fish, and nobody who does should call themselves that) all my life - to begin with it was because I spat out meat-based baby foods, probably because my mother had been vegetarian since before I was born (although the rest of my family weren't then, now one of my sisters is). As soon as I was old enough to understand what it was about (3 years old) I reinforced my lifestyle by choosing it for myself anyway. I became vegan 5 years ago because I realised that eating eggs, dairy and honey (we have a parallel situation to the fish thing with veganism, where some people who call themselves vegan eat honey - it's also very annoying!) still caused oppression, suffering and death to billions of animals worldwide (not to mention the environmental, social and health problems). It actually started from an email sent by the RSPCA about their Freedom Foods standards - I remember reading the standards, and thinking 'those chickens don't sound very free'. Personally, I don't now see eggs as vegetarian - if you think about what they are, they're basically half a chicken. And half a chicken isn't any more vegetarian than a whole one.

There is also no medical reason to eat fish - Westerners tend to eat too much protein, particularly animal-based, and if you eat enough calories you're virtually guaranteed enough protein. Omega 3s are available from algae, flax (oil or seeds), walnuts and leafy greens, and as long as you don't eat too high a ratio of omega 6s (which compete for the same enzyme to build up long-chain versions of the fats) you should be able to absorb and use them fine. Unfortunately, omega 6s are over-prevalent in Western diets at the moment, so research what you eat. If you're suffering physically or mentally from being veg*n, then you're doing it wrong!

It's good that some people have started their journey towards ending their contribution towards animal suffering. However, if you eat fish, you aren't vegetarian, and if you eat honey, you aren't vegan. As people have said, it's confusing to omnivores, and offensive to people who genuinely are veg*n, because they don't want others to think they do the same when they have made an ethical choice not to.
~ Shoshanah

Rachel, I take it that as your parents decide what you eat you are still young, so in due course you can take control of your own diet and get your protein from other sources.

I am a member of the HSA (Humane Slaughter Association) which campaigns for both animals and fish to live and die without unnecessary cruelty at time of slaughter and up to including transport and where/how they are raised eg stock density of fish and novel stunning methods which can be placed on fishing boats so fish are killed quick at time of harvest. I think animals and fish will continue to be consumed for a while yet, and maybe for longer by pets, which means we need to support such organisations which educate workers in food production so that any meat and fish we do eat or feed to our pet is produced with minimal cruelty.
~ Vicky

The views expressed on this Think Tank page are contributed by individuals and do not necessarily reflect the views or actions of The Vegetarian Society. However, we do not apologise in any way for campaigning on this issue, or for giving people a forum in which to express their personal views. Vegetarians find the misconception that we all eat fish extremely frustrating, particularly when they are repeatedly offered fish as a vegetarian option. This one area of our work seeks to directly challenge such misconceptions and explain why vegetarians choose not to eat fish. Some pescatarians may find the information here changes their mind about eating fish but for those who do not, we make one simple request: please do not refer to yourself as a vegetarian - it just confuses other people.

~Liz O’Neill, Head of Communications, The Vegetarian Society

People also forget that "pulses" include peas, which don't have the same unsociable effects as some beans. Again, we love cooking garden peas with rice and really enjoy old-fashioned "mushy peas" with our chips.

~ Mrs B Cooper

Another point I'd like to make is that when you DO have "pet" fish in the home you really can't understand anyone wanting to kill and eat such intelligent creatures.

You CAN buy vegetarian Omega capsules.
~ Barbara

Rachel, all the very best to your little girl, good for her for making up her own mind to stop eating meat, that is the way most of us started and then progressed to not eating fish either. I wish I'd had the courage at such a young age to make the decision not to eat flesh. It's just that when one says they are vegetarian and then proceeds to eat fish it makes people think that vegetarians DO as a whole eat fish, which of course is so untrue. Pescatarian is a much better choice of word and if she or you need to explain it's meaning then you're spreading the word even farther.
~ Barbara

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7pLyYsEHGM8